Richard Rorty Interview
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Int: How do you respond to the recent conservative attacks on the academy?
Rorty: I think that the academic left has made sort of an ass of itself and has given easy targets for the conservatives, but basically I think that the conservatives are just either jealous of the soft life that we professors have or else working for the Republicans and trying to underm~ne the universities the same way they undermined the trade unions. I mean that the universities and colleges are bastions of the left in America, and the closest thing we have to the left is roughly the left wing of the Democratic Party, and if you look at the statistics on what kind of professor votes for what, the humanities and the social science professors always vote overwhelmingly democratic, and obviously the youth that is exposed to courses in social sciences and humanities is going to be gently nudged in a leftward direction. The Republicans are quite aware of this fact, and they would like to stop it from happening. Any club that will beat the universities is going to look good to them. The more the English depanments make fools of themselves by being politically correct, the easier a target the Republicans are going to have.
Int: Is that what you meant by "making asses of themselves"?
Rorty: I think that the English departments have made it possible to have a career teaching English without caring much about literature or knowing much about literature but just producing rather trite, formulaic, politicized readings of this or that text. This makes it an easy target. There's a kind of formulaic leftist rhetoric that's been developed in the wake of Foucault, which permits you to exercise a kind of hermeneutics of suspicion on anything from the phonebook to Proust. It's sort of an obviously easy way to write books, articles, and it produces work of very low intellectual quality. And so, this makes this kind of thing an easy target from the outside. It permits people like Roger Kimball and D'Souza to say these people aren't really scholars, which is true. I think that the use made of Foucault and Derrida in American departments of literature had been, on the whole, unfortunate, but it's not their fault. Nobody's responsible for their followers.
Int: You have criticized Foucault and others for their radical politics.
Rorty: What I object to about them is that they never talk in terms of possible legislation, possible national economic policy, things that might actually be debated between political candidates and you might pass a law about or something like that. It seems to me to be a continuation of the '60s attitude that the system is so hopelessly corrupt that you don't really take part in the day-to-day politics. You rise above it and sneer at it. They don't even try to be solutions. They're radical critiques without radical proposals.
Int: Should philosophers offer specific political proposals?
Rorty: I don't think there's any general rule. I mean, some people are good at this; some people aren't. Everybody's supposed to try to be a good citizen, but not philosophy professors any more than nurses or plumbers.
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Int: In Contingency, Irony and Solidarity, you extoll the "strong poet." Do you think that a person should be considered deficient or bad, if he or she were not a strong poet?
Rorty: Yeah, I think that of the various potentialities that human beings might hope to fulfill, such a person fulfills only some and leaves others unfulfilled. I think it comes to saying: Ideally, people ought to be both imaginative and nice. Some people are nice without being imaginative. Some people are imaginative without being nice. One out of two isn't bad, but it would be nice to have both.
Int: Are there any private virtues other than imagination?
Rorty: No. That's just because I'm extending the term 'imaginative' to mean every project of self-creation, every sense of duty to oneself.
Int: How do think that the university can encourage imagination?
Rorty: I think that liberal education holds out examples of people who have done something startling and original and thus inspires people to think, "Gee, maybe I could do something startling and original too." But it isn't that one department rather than another is in charge of this activity. Philosophy departments hold out the examples of people like Hegel and Nietzsche and Wittgenstein, and art departments hold out the examples of people like Da Vinci and Cezanne.
Int: Do you have any suggestions about teaching style?
Rorty: Teaching is largely a matter of some kind of rapport established between the teacher and the student. This is purely accidental and unpredictable and unplannable. You can have an utterly dry teaching style and yet something in what you're saying and the way you're saying it will turn certain students on. I think the nice thing about our education system is that you get to see a lot of different teachers doing their thing about a lot of different figures. Sooner or later, something might grab you.
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Int: In Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature, you attacked Putnam's early philosophy. What do you think of his more recent work?
Rorty: I think our views are practically indistinguishable, but he doesn't. He thinks I'm a relativist and he isn't. And I think: if I'm a relativist, then he's one too.
Int: Why do you think Putnam sees you as a relativist?
Rorty: Beats me. I wrote an article about it, but that was as far as I got.
Int: Do you still believe that epistemology should be replaced by hermeneutics?
Rorty: No, I think it was an unfortunate phrase. I wish I'd never mentioned hermeneutics. The last chapter of Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature isn't very good. I think I just should have said: we ought to be able to think of something more interesting to do than keep the epistemology industry going.
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Int: What led you to major in philosophy?
Rorty: Lack of any better ideas. I might equally well have gone into English or History, but I had been more fascinated by my philosophy course than by anything else. It was like choosing a major without anything much in mind. Occasionally, I've regretted not being a historian, but by now, I think it doesn't really make much difference, because after you get tenure, you can do what you want anyways.